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TimW
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Re: Progetto 952, Giulia
« Reactie #690 Gepost op: 9 juli 2017, 11:20:48 »
Citaat van: ExTaxi op  9 juli 2017, 10:33:08
Citaat van: ExTaxi op  9 juli 2017, 10:33:08
Oef. dit is wel heel erg zuur

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKakXkLp8U4

Oude test waarvan allang duidelijk is geworden dat dit een preproductiemodel was. Overigens wel slordig van AR omdat ze voor het afgeven van een auto aan zo'n test de auto wel wat beter geprepareerd hadden mogen hebben...
G̶i̶u̶l̶i̶e̶t̶a̶ ̶1̶.̶4̶M̶A̶  -> Seat Leon Cupra 280.
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frankie
11.788

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Re: Progetto 952, Giulia
« Reactie #691 Gepost op: 9 juli 2017, 17:57:29 »
Zo oud toch niet? Dat competition pack op de M3 is er pas vanaf begin van dit jaar.
Alfa Romeo Giulietta QV - Supersprint turboback, BR Performance chiptuning
275pk - 405nm
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TimW
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Re: Progetto 952, Giulia
« Reactie #692 Gepost op: 10 juli 2017, 07:37:29 »
Citaat van: frankie op  9 juli 2017, 17:57:29
Citaat van: frankie op  9 juli 2017, 17:57:29
Zo oud toch niet? Dat competition pack op de M3 is er pas vanaf begin van dit jaar.

Met oud bedoelde ik meer dat dit was voordat AR diverse updates had doorgevoerd, updates juist vanwege deze problemen/kinderziektes.

Neemt niet weg dat AR er niet alles aan gedaan lijkt te hebben om een perfecte auto af te leveren, slordig.

Verder vind ik het een nogal "bijzondere" testvideo. Aan veel blijkt dat met name de BMW al een behoorlijke streep voor had, vervolgens krijgen ze een motorstoring in de Giulia en i.v.p. daar wat aan te doen blijven ze de auto nog rondes lang over het circuit heen raggen en wanneer ze het niet meer doet is het maar weer typisch Alfa.  :-[
G̶i̶u̶l̶i̶e̶t̶a̶ ̶1̶.̶4̶M̶A̶  -> Seat Leon Cupra 280.
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frankie
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Re: Progetto 952, Giulia
« Reactie #693 Gepost op: 10 juli 2017, 09:47:17 »
Wat hadden ze er aan moeten doen? Waarschijnlijk was er maar beperkt tijd met circuithuur, beschikbaarheid van de testauto etc. En ik denk niet dat die journalisten standaard Examiner of andere testkast bij zich hebben... :rolleyes: en door de montage van de video weet je toch niet precies wanneer zich wat voordeed en hoelang ze uiteindelijk nog met die motorstoring hebben rondgereden.

Desalniettemin, Alfa heeft zijn zaakjes gewoon niet voor elkaar gehad. Veel journalisten liepen meerdere keren tegen een niet goed functionerend differentieel aan, wat ook voor foutmeldingen zorgde. Dat is funest gezien die historie en het imago wat Alfa heeft qua betrouwbaarheid.
Alfa Romeo Giulietta QV - Supersprint turboback, BR Performance chiptuning
275pk - 405nm
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TimW
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Re: Progetto 952, Giulia
« Reactie #694 Gepost op: 10 juli 2017, 10:21:35 »
Nou ja, vol gas over een circuit raggen lijkt me zo'n beetje het laatste wat je wil doen wanneer je een motorstoring hebt. Ik begrijp dat ze op zo'n dag weinig anders kunnen, maar doorrijden met een storing is vragen om problemen om dan vervolgens "hey hij doet het niet meer, tja Alfa Romeo he" als conclusie te hebben, tja... Ik vond het alles bij elkaar nogal een subjectieve test.

Ben het met je eens dat Alfa Romeo inderdaad slordig is geweest, zeker gezien de geschiedenis zou je zeggen dat je er alles aan doet dat de testauto's piekfijn in orde zijn, maar helaas.  :-[
G̶i̶u̶l̶i̶e̶t̶a̶ ̶1̶.̶4̶M̶A̶  -> Seat Leon Cupra 280.
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GT1986
452

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Re: Progetto 952, Giulia
« Reactie #695 Gepost op: 10 juli 2017, 12:04:57 »
Tja, is het slordigheid of onkunde? :rolleyes:
Nu: Giulietta 2.0 JTDm TCT Squadra tuned (2013)
Gehad: MiTo 1.3 JTDm Eco Squadra tuned (2011) | 156 2.5 V6 24V (2003) | 75 3.0 V6 America (1988)
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TimW
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Re: Progetto 952, Giulia
« Reactie #696 Gepost op: 10 juli 2017, 14:01:05 »
Tja, is het slordigheid of onkunde? :rolleyes:

Aangezien deze problemen volgens mij alleen op de preproductiemodellen zaten en inmiddels voor zover ik weten allemaal opgelost hou ik het op slordigheid.
G̶i̶u̶l̶i̶e̶t̶a̶ ̶1̶.̶4̶M̶A̶  -> Seat Leon Cupra 280.
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jwq
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Re: Progetto 952, Giulia
« Reactie #697 Gepost op: 10 juli 2017, 15:08:22 »
Van Engels forum:

Hi all,

Just to add a bit more detail to this video, as there seems to be a few wild conspiracy theories being thrown around!

- The Giulia was a production car, and given to us with 5,000 miles on it. I believe it was the car used on Top Gear. The test was conducted on May 3rd so that's the car and when it happened.

- The car had thrown up the 'check engine' light a couple of times already on the road but often it would disappear again. When the car was working people absolutely loved it and I can not make that point strongly enough: the original PH review praised the Quadrifoglio highly, as have subsequent stories on the regular models. We like the car very much and want to see it do well; of course we all have cars we like but the suggestion of overt bias towards the Geman cars is quite upsetting.

- Obviously we would have preferred not to drive the Giulia with the warning light on but it was 3pm by the time this video was shot, having been trying to fix the car all day. The Alfa technician with the car had to go to Chester because his diagnostics tool broke (!) and so we were massively time restricted. We tried to film the car while it was running properly and then it malfunctioned again. We thought that some video of the car would be better than none at all but perhaps in hindsight it wasn't. Would you have wanted to see M3 v. C63 with the Alfa in the pit? That would also explain why we didn't swap cars - there simply wasn't the time!

- Most importantly, we are trying to get this test reorganised. We know the Alfa is very good and we want to give it a fair chance to prove itself. For the reasons listed above it wasn't possible this time but we're confident it can happen again. Certainly however the above video is not some propaganda vid for the Germans - they are good cars that were working on the day, the Alfa is a good car that wasn't. I envisage a far closer comparison - and a better video - when we get them together again.

I hope that clears things up a little. If you have any more questions about the test then drop me an email on matthew.bird@haymarket.com. I'm very keen that what actually happened is known before any alternative facts gain traction!

Cheers!


Matt
eerdere Alfa's : Spider 2.0 veloce, Sud 1.7 QV, Alfetta GTV 2.0, 164 2.0 TS, 147 GTA
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jwq
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Re: Progetto 952, Giulia
« Reactie #698 Gepost op: 11 juli 2017, 12:52:39 »
Amerikanen zijn ook druk bezig ;)

Citaat van: toby@eurocompulsion;170578


 
We've spent the last few months dismantling, learning, and testing the all new Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0L Turbo engine. The new Multiair2 turbo engine uses a wide array of new features, components, and boost system control unique to new Alfa models that has not been previously utilized on FCA family vehicles.

Data acquisition is key, and very important to understanding the how and why of engine operation. It not only helps us to design and develop better performance products, but also helps the end user understand their vehicle more thoroughly.

We'll detail our developments and add more information as we progress.

 

ENGINE:

Much of our time has gone into understanding the new Multiair2 engine operation and how it utilizes a few new unique components: direct injection, electronic wastegate, diverter valve movement, variation in valve profiles, intercooler routing, and the mass air flow sensor's part in turbo operation with effects on intake pressure and temperature.

We've started with the factory intake system and turbo operation.



The factory intake system is a great system by design. It is in part a true ram air system (which is our favorite kind). The filter housing receives cool enclosed, high pressure air from the front of the vehicle grill. The ducting shape offers enough inertial separation to prevent large amounts of water and debris from collecting in the filter housing. The MAF bung also has a honey comb insert after the filter housing to increase laminar flow of air as it goes to the turbocharger.

However, initial flow testing showed that by improving component materials we could decrease pressure loss and feed greater air mass over the stock system. Another downside was intake air temperature. Both the Giulia and the Giulia QV have noticeably high intake temperatures over ambient conditions. This could also be improved.

One other important factor for intake design is understanding how the factory evaporative emissions system works and why it is important to maintain this system as the factory intended. Not doing so can result in CELs, decreased longevity to emissions components such as the evap canister, and oil buildup in the intake (which ends up in many unwanted places). All of our intake designs for the Giulia maintain the factory emissions system, and use quick connect adapters for all factory fittings. This negates any reason to cut, remove, or replace any factory lines when replacing the intake system with an EC unit. This was paramount to us.

We have started development on 3 different series intakes: the V1, the V2, and the V4.

Each of these intake designs is manufactured with our EC Kevtek technology. Many silicone parts are lined with fiberglass, or better nomex aramids. We utilize a unique, multi-layered kevlar aramid lining, which offers the highest tensile strength and is very lightweight. It is roughly 5-10 times stronger than standard silicone offerings.

Our filters are manufactured specifically for EC. They do not contain cotton gauze, but are designed with an advanced dry filter media, made with a stronger structured mesh material. This filters debris down to 5 microns in size, and will out flow most market filters up to 10-12%. This filter material is utilized on multiple 24hr Le Mans winning vehicles and on many other motorsport platforms.

Our V1 is a stock replacement unit, which utilizes the factory filter housing. It is meant to offer a stock like appearance while improving intake flow and temperatures.

Our V2 intake system uses an much larger open air element filter and removes the stock airbox. The open air filter allows for much louder intake noises, and offers much higher flow and volume. It utilizes the factory fresh air duct and still ingests air from the front of the car while also using underhood pressure.

Our V4 intake system is a completely closed ram air unit, sealed directly to the front of the car and uses a high flow cone filter enclosed in a carbon fiber airbox.

Only sneak peeks for now:










We will have charts to view of temp, flow, and power data once we get closer to release.

This is an upgrade to the stock diverter valve housing. The DV+ from Go Fast Bits offers sharper and more consistent valve actuation during various boost scenarios, which is especially important as we change or increase boost/airflow. The stock actuator is sound in design and works fine in most cases up to a point, but it can develop weak points in the valve mechanism as more is demanded from it.




ECU:

This we are especially excited about. The Giulia 2.0 Multiair2 turbo uses a brand new engine management unit from Magneti Marelli, the MM10JA. Typically with new ECU units there is a delay with support for bench flashing and OBDII, but we have been able to jump straight in.



Because of certain constraints within this ECU's boost control system, and with torque management, we decided to move forward with direct ECU tuning over an external piggyback module offering. Due to these electronic components and mapping within the ECU, a piggyback module in the case of the Giulia is going to be capped and limited at very low performance levels in order to avoid certain issues with the boost control system (random CELs in various modes at cruise and WOT rpms). This is based on our testing.

We have progressed to developing our Phase 1 calibration for the Giulia. This at first involved a direct clone, where the original ECU is opened and used to make a second factory ECU that is compatible with the same vehicle, but in tuned format. The Giulia ECU is easily opened and closed with no evidence or footprint.

Further into development, we are now flash tuning the Giulia via the OBDII port.



At the moment, I don't believe any one else is doing this. The ECU is read via a handheld, and a tuned version of this factory calibration is written to the ECU using the handheld via the OBDII port.

Our tune and final numbers are still in development (this is currently an active project), but we will have more info on different tuning options for the end user as we near completion. So far we are making great strides into getting safe but very aggressive power out of this engine.

 

APPEARANCE & SUSPENSION

Our Giulia 2.0 has had a few upgrades in this category. We don't typically deal in aesthetic modifications and usually stick to performance components, but we've decided to dabble a bit. One look at the Giulia and it's hard not to keep dressing it up!

We are currently setting up a few wheel design offerings from our partner, Avant Garde. Wheels manufactured by AG are very high quality, lightweight, and with very striking designs and custom finishes. Wheels for the Giulia are made to order and with custom sizing sourced by EC.

M652 with Brushed Polish Champagne:



 
Lugnut conversion:



The car has also been lowered with our Eibach Pro-Kit Lowering Springs, and some subtle dark wrap on the lighter colored trim pieces with tail/headlight darkening:



 
All of these and more will be available on our website at shopeurocompulsion.net

We hope to be adding an exhaust from our friends at Centerline shortly, which we will also be offering, especially as we increase performance from tuning and our intake systems.

We will be keeping this thread updated as projects move forward, and will have official threads available as products are released. Stay tuned!

eerdere Alfa's : Spider 2.0 veloce, Sud 1.7 QV, Alfetta GTV 2.0, 164 2.0 TS, 147 GTA
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berreber
415

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Re: Progetto 952, Giulia
« Reactie #699 Gepost op: 11 juli 2017, 13:39:42 »
Amerikanen zijn ook druk bezig ;)

Pff, ziet er wel super uit zeg!
Alfa Romeo 147: Simons Einddemper + Akrapovic sierstuk -- Face lift 16" velgen -- Veerpootbrug -- Retrofit Xenon & Angel eyes
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TimW
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Re: Progetto 952, Giulia
« Reactie #700 Gepost op: 11 juli 2017, 13:46:40 »
Amerikanen zijn ook druk bezig ;)

Pff, ziet er wel super uit zeg!

Inderdaad, de verlaging staat geweldig.

Enige minpuntje is die matzwarte zonneband, maar ik zou er mee kunnen leven, van mij mogen ze deze naar Nederland versturen.  ;D
G̶i̶u̶l̶i̶e̶t̶a̶ ̶1̶.̶4̶M̶A̶  -> Seat Leon Cupra 280.
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berreber
415

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Re: Progetto 952, Giulia
« Reactie #701 Gepost op: 11 juli 2017, 14:10:45 »
Amerikanen zijn ook druk bezig ;)

Pff, ziet er wel super uit zeg!

Inderdaad, de verlaging staat geweldig.

Enige minpuntje is die matzwarte zonneband, maar ik zou er mee kunnen leven, van mij mogen ze deze naar Nederland versturen.  ;D

Zouden ze aan ruilen doen?  :D
Alfa Romeo 147: Simons Einddemper + Akrapovic sierstuk -- Face lift 16" velgen -- Veerpootbrug -- Retrofit Xenon & Angel eyes
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frankie
11.788

  • Type Alfa: Giulietta QV
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Re: Progetto 952, Giulia
« Reactie #702 Gepost op: 11 juli 2017, 14:19:36 »
Wel behoorlijk laag voor alleen veren ook  :PDT_Armataz_01_37:
Alfa Romeo Giulietta QV - Supersprint turboback, BR Performance chiptuning
275pk - 405nm
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TimW
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Re: Progetto 952, Giulia
« Reactie #703 Gepost op: 29 juli 2017, 16:57:22 »
Voor de liefhebber, ik kwam deze net tegen:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3U-XH_ipE0
G̶i̶u̶l̶i̶e̶t̶a̶ ̶1̶.̶4̶M̶A̶  -> Seat Leon Cupra 280.
 

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