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turbonutter
25

  • Type Alfa: Stratos Turbo
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    - Startende Alfist
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    • Re: Geen GTA, wel GTA motor
    « Reactie #15 Gepost op: 8 februari 2014, 16:12:23 »
    Not much progress, been saving some money so I could order the new pistons., which I have just ordered.

    CP Pistons with a 3cc bigger dish than the last pistons to lower the compression slightly from 8.6to 8.3.



    Gelogd
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    frankie

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    • Re: Geen GTA, wel GTA motor
    « Reactie #16 Gepost op: 8 februari 2014, 16:17:06 »
    What's the main advantage of the lower compression? Sligtly lower temperature?
    Gelogd
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    turbonutter
    25

    • Type Alfa: Stratos Turbo
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    • Re: Geen GTA, wel GTA motor
    « Reactie #17 Gepost op: 8 februari 2014, 17:16:06 »
    Given that the first Build of this engine blew a head gasket due to detonation and the fact that I needed new pistons, I went with lower CR to move further away from the detonation point, yes lower CR will give lower temps all other things equal.
    The main point is not to increase the compression ratio. I am using Total seal rings this time & these can give slightly higher compression. As well as the heads being skimmed which will also increase the CR slightly.
    I am changing engine tuner this time and he also suggested a slightly lower CR, as having a large turbo the boost builds quickly anyway and this should help smooth the delivery..
    Pistons will also have Calico coating on the skirts - no crown coating though, as it isnt really necessary for my engine.
    Gelogd
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    turbonutter
    25

    • Type Alfa: Stratos Turbo
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    • Re: Geen GTA, wel GTA motor
    « Reactie #18 Gepost op: 25 maart 2014, 04:00:30 »
    Working away has its advantage sometimes.
    I am in the USA next week & collect my new ECU and accessories. Its an american ECU & getting it here saves me EUR1000!




    This is the ECU an AEM Infinity 8, which as well as running the engine will run the DBW that I couldnt run previously, has dual Knock Inputs, Traction control & can log 100 channels at upto 1khz.
    I also got a 4 Channel EGT thermocouple amp,  and thermocouples, 2 lambda sensors & connector kit, & 3x dash 12 position switches.

    its a nice little late christmas present!
    Gelogd
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    ArjanB
    2.006

    • Type Alfa: 156 GTA SW | Giulietta QV
    • *****
      Moderatore - Super Alfist
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    • Re: Geen GTA, wel GTA motor
    « Reactie #19 Gepost op: 27 maart 2014, 13:59:59 »
    nice project, mate!
    Love reading on it - and please keep on posting here as well  :PDT_Armataz_01_37:

     :You_Rock_Emoticon:
    Gelogd
    nu: Alfa Romeo 156 SW GTA Q2 | Giulietta 1750 TBi QV TCT | 4C spider
    gehad: 145 boxer|156 JTD|147JTD|Giulietta QV|Seicento Abarth |Panda 100HP
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    frankie

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    • Re: Geen GTA, wel GTA motor
    « Reactie #20 Gepost op: 27 maart 2014, 14:18:08 »
    Any particular reason you chose that AEM Infinity ECU?
    Gelogd
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    turbonutter
    25

    • Type Alfa: Stratos Turbo
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      - Startende Alfist
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    • Re: Geen GTA, wel GTA motor
    « Reactie #21 Gepost op: 27 maart 2014, 18:37:52 »
    I wanted to add more inputs to the Haltech, so I could get aditional logging & also planned to add a race logic traction control. The aditional inputs would have required an add on IO box, and to do the logging properly with the haltech, I would have needed a small tablet PC running windows, so in the end it made sense to change to an ecu that would do everything i needed.
    I will be using someone new for this tune and we looked at various ECU's. The new guy is concerned with having very good boost control, to the point where he likes to have an ecu that allows the boost control to be able to react predictively. i.e. to predict and then to make changes rather than to wait until a condition occurs and then react after it has happened. If you get what I mean.
    This was one of the ECU's he is happy to work with, that will do this, the other being Pectel, which is a bit expensive! The AEM is also supposed to have very good traction control.

    I dont think I have ever had a standard ECU, my first car had webber Alpha, this one had Haltech & now AEM.....
    Gelogd
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    Masso
    639

    • Type Alfa: 156 GTA formerly 2.5V624v
    • *****
      - Super Alfist
    • Echte mannen hebben geen tang nodig...
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    • Geen GTA, wel GTA motor
    « Reactie #22 Gepost op: 2 april 2014, 21:22:36 »
    First of all, welcome!

    Second: Lovely job! Cost a damn fortune for sure....

    Yeah, knock, before you know it,... and pistons fuse like an acetylene torch. Your running on/over design thermal load, great stuff!

    Lowering compression ratio is absolutely critical with what you're playing with....

    What are you charging? 1.5 - 1.7 bar? Maybe even more??

    You use race head gaskets I assume? Cannot be ordered in EU, have to be especially made to order....

    In your case an absolute must as well, standard head gaskets won't do at all.

    Very impressive!

    Pity you blew your engine....
    Your crankshaft is still usable?

    I read yanko's post on Alfaowner a few days ago, he's also going AEM, but piggy back ECU, you're using the full version, interesting...

    Yeah, trimming the head an extra 0,5mm helps raise compression somewhat, but in your case the opposite of what you want? Or am I missing something?

    I looked everywhere for GTA pistons manufacturers, Mahler doesn't even have them on catalogue....where/how did you find them?

    Looks great!
    Gelogd
    Echte mannen hebben geen tang nodig....
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    turbonutter
    25

    • Type Alfa: Stratos Turbo
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      - Startende Alfist
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    • Re: Geen GTA, wel GTA motor
    « Reactie #23 Gepost op: 3 april 2014, 03:06:05 »
    Thanks for the welcome.... & yes a small fortune!

    The Engine was running around 8.6:1 when the head gasket blew, new pistons will drop the CR to about 8.3 or 8.4.
    The head is only being skimmed to remove the damage from the detonation. It will be the lightest skim possible to remove the damage & this has already been taken into account when ordering the new pistons.
    The pistons are custom made to order. I use performance unlimited in the UK. They scanned my piston & then designed the new pistons to the compression ratio I wanted. They have designed various pistons for the alfa engine, but not sure about High Compression ones for teh GTA, but they should be able to do whatever is needed. They have the pistons made by either CP or JE pistons in the USA. Takes about 6 weeks & £1000.

    I was running 1.2-1.3 bar boost to get 515WHP, so nothing too extreem. The only damage to the engine was the pistons, so not to bad. Everything else is reusable.

    I was using Spesso Racing Head gaskets, which are available in europe, the only issue is the price - £400 for a pair & that was a discount. For the rebuild I will be using a stock gasket, but a good quality one (victor reinz). I have talked with a few people and all agree that the stock gasket will be fine so long as the engine is tuned propperly & there is no detonation. But on the advice from a couple of people I will be having the liners "o-ringed" to improve the gasket sealing.



    Gelogd
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    Masso
    639

    • Type Alfa: 156 GTA formerly 2.5V624v
    • *****
      - Super Alfist
    • Echte mannen hebben geen tang nodig...
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    • Geen GTA, wel GTA motor
    « Reactie #24 Gepost op: 3 april 2014, 10:36:09 »
    You mean on top? Or special o-rings instead of the original ones which seal the cylinders in their seats?

    Read your post, interesting stuff Neill. Really nice.

    Seems to me that the Stratos has a very short wheel base and has tremendous under steer? With this power you must aim & pray in a corner?

    I would love to take a few corners with a fun factory like this one!

    Good call on the 164 gearbox, the 24v Busso gearboxes apparently cannot handle more than approx 430 - 450Nm, which is a damned shame, a six speed would do nicely in your Stratos.

    I was admiring your custom flywheel, beautiful work of art...
    Gelogd
    Echte mannen hebben geen tang nodig....
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    turbonutter
    25

    • Type Alfa: Stratos Turbo
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      - Startende Alfist
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    • Re: Geen GTA, wel GTA motor
    « Reactie #25 Gepost op: 3 april 2014, 20:06:26 »
    Stainless Steel Wire O-rings on top of the Liner to bite into the head gasket. My first Car with a twin turbo 12V Alfa, I just had grooves in the top of the liner for the gasket to deform into, which is a similar principle, only the o-rings are more positive.

    Yes its a short & wide car, which changes direction very quickly, I have never really had an issue with Under steer, more of an oversteer problem & trying to prevent the car going backwards. There are a couple of videos on my site that demonstrate this...
    http://www.turbonutter.net/apps/videos/videos/show/17870084-blyton-park-nearly-a-spin-
    http://www.turbonutter.net/apps/videos/videos/show/17869057-blyton-park-spin

    Its for sure a lot of fun...

    The busso gearbox can be modified with a lot of machining and steel spectacle pieces inserted to hold the bearings together, but its expensive, hence I opted for the Toyota box.

    The flywheel is really nice and only 3.2kg - not expensive either. I have a second one that was made with the crankshaft bolt pattern wrong. The offset hole was offset in the wrong direction!
     
    Gelogd
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    Masso
    639

    • Type Alfa: 156 GTA formerly 2.5V624v
    • *****
      - Super Alfist
    • Echte mannen hebben geen tang nodig...
  • Beste antwoord!
    • Geen GTA, wel GTA motor
    « Reactie #26 Gepost op: 3 april 2014, 20:18:54 »
    I always mix them up, I mean over steer  :-[

    Great video! Finally a fellow builder who isn't a pussy!!!

    ;) ;) ;)

    (Yes, I mean you, ladies out there  :p )
    Gelogd
    Echte mannen hebben geen tang nodig....
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    ArjanB
    2.006

    • Type Alfa: 156 GTA SW | Giulietta QV
    • *****
      Moderatore - Super Alfist
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    • Re: Geen GTA, wel GTA motor
    « Reactie #27 Gepost op: 3 april 2014, 23:34:56 »
    Citaat van: Masso op  3 april 2014, 20:18:54
    Citaat van: Masso op  3 april 2014, 20:18:54
    I always mix them up, I mean under steer Deuh

    Great video! Finally a fellow builder who isn't a pussy!!!

    ;) ;) ;)

    (Yes, I mean you, ladies out there  :p )

    LOL
     :sign0103: :sign0023:
    Gelogd
    nu: Alfa Romeo 156 SW GTA Q2 | Giulietta 1750 TBi QV TCT | 4C spider
    gehad: 145 boxer|156 JTD|147JTD|Giulietta QV|Seicento Abarth |Panda 100HP
    *

    Masso
    639

    • Type Alfa: 156 GTA formerly 2.5V624v
    • *****
      - Super Alfist
    • Echte mannen hebben geen tang nodig...
  • Beste antwoord!
    • Re: Geen GTA, wel GTA motor
    « Reactie #28 Gepost op: 6 april 2014, 13:57:28 »
    Citaat van: turbonutter op  3 april 2014, 20:06:26
    Citaat van: turbonutter op  3 april 2014, 20:06:26
    Stainless Steel Wire O-rings on top of the Liner to bite into the head gasket. My first Car with a twin turbo 12V Alfa, I just had grooves in the top of the liner for the gasket to deform into, which is a similar principle, only the o-rings are more positive.

    Yes its a short & wide car, which changes direction very quickly, I have never really had an issue with Under steer, more of an oversteer problem & trying to prevent the car going backwards. There are a couple of videos on my site that demonstrate this...
    http://www.turbonutter.net/apps/videos/videos/show/17870084-blyton-park-nearly-a-spin-
    http://www.turbonutter.net/apps/videos/videos/show/17869057-blyton-park-spin

    Its for sure a lot of fun...

    The busso gearbox can be modified with a lot of machining and steel spectacle pieces inserted to hold the bearings together, but its expensive, hence I opted for the Toyota box.

    The flywheel is really nice and only 3.2kg - not expensive either. I have a second one that was made with the crankshaft bolt pattern wrong. The offset hole was offset in the wrong direction!

    Neil, do you have a pic of the inside of your liners and of the pistons after the failure?
    Gelogd
    Echte mannen hebben geen tang nodig....
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    turbonutter
    25

    • Type Alfa: Stratos Turbo
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      - Startende Alfist
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    • Re: Geen GTA, wel GTA motor
    « Reactie #29 Gepost op: 27 mei 2014, 17:13:52 »
    Sorry for not replying sooner, but I have been out of internet range for the last few weeks.....
    The liners looked fine after the det, just the pistons and heads that were marked.




    That was then - I have just got home and have the new pistons:)



    Those are now away again to be matched to the weight of the last pistons - that way I can avoid having to rebalance the whole engine as an assembly.

    Gelogd
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